Session: 123456789101112131415161718192021222324         Page 293294295296297298299300301302303304305306307308309310311312 of 592

Dave, “You know, you're going to get a lot of complaints posing this program and this program, selling tickets and this thing.” “Don't worry about it. Give them more -- everything.” “Why?” “Keep people busy. Keep people involved. Get to the members with other things.” He would talk about uplift, you know, and culture and that thing -- he saw that too. But he saw them primarily as unifying factors. Of getting people together, of being closer to the union -- that kind of thing. You've got to have all of these things.

So in a sense what you're saying is that leading a union is like running a constant crusade.

It's like running a symphony orchestra. Preventing the brass from fighting with the woodwinds, and getting them all to work together and play together and give out the best they can.

More specifically, you're saying you always have to have programs and activities and goals because -- to paraphrase Woody Allen -- “A union is like a shark. If it stops moving forward it dies.”

He said that about a union?

He said that about a relationship. A relationship is like a shark. If you don't keep moving forward it dies.

Osman used to say, “An organization that's not growing will die.” See. Or he would say, “The only time you have unanimity of opinion, where everybody agrees on everything, is in the graveyard.” See? I don't know that there is another answer to that thing.

But remember the union is structured pretty much that way. See the things that have changed that -- the increase in three, four, five year contracts. See, there used to be a time when you had one year contracts. Now the one year contract virtually guaranteed that the union -- it's like a congress. People say, “What? You can't have a congress like this, they're always running for office!” And it's true. A union has to be, because left to itself workers would rather do nothing but have my dues deducted. People are not dying to be active. See for example we found, and we know, when you start getting people active in unions, in an organization, you're going to get all kinds of people. You're going to get strange people, you're going to get good people, bad people, people who for all kinds of reasons -- people who are lonely. People who want to do something. The union fulfills all kinds of needs and desires.