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I got to the name Bread and Roses really because I had read the Milton Meltzer book called Bread and Roses Too, and I was intrigued with the title. It's a very short title that says it all. You can't make up anything better than that. That's why I picked that. The story of that strike is so exciting and so wonderful that it lends itself to going back to something like that. But at the time I did not say, “Bread and Roses.” I'm beginning to talk about Bread and Roses as maybe being the title of the thing.

I'm talking about a festival in the arts and humanities to celebrate the twentieth anniversary of the founding of the hospital union. It's a celebration of the anniversary. It's an anniversary celebration. Later on I say to them, “You know, we can't do this celebration in one year. I'll have to do a two-year celebration.” They said, “Okay, do a two year celebration.” Then Marty Sullivan says, “We don't fund festivals.” He says, “Try to call it something else.” I said, “I don't know, I can't figure it out.”

When I go to meet with Carl Stover and I tell him that I met with NEH, he gets a little bit upset too. “What did they say? What did they say.” [Telephone rings. Tape stops and starts] He didn't know that NEH was interested. So when I told him that I'd met with NEH he says, “Why are you going to them before you come to us?” I said, “Well, they asked me. They told me that they don't fund festivals.” So he said, “We like festivals.” They (NEA) do have a project that funds festivals. “Because,” he says, “I thought this was going to be a NEA project.” He says, “Well it looks now like it's going to be like a joint NEA-NEH project.” He says, “Okay.” He calls in Gordon Brathwaite, a black guy - - his assistant -- and he says that Gordon is the person that I should maintain contact with, because he says he is leaving for Europe soon and Gordon should be the person I speak to and stay in touch with. I call Jack Golodner and tell him what's happening.

NEH approves the planning grant -- quickly. Because they don't have to go through a panel on it -- they go through the chairman. NEA is a problem because I can't get to Gordon Brathwaite. He's a goof-off. I call time after time, leave message after message, I can't get back to him. I'm desperate. I know that Stover's going to go to Germany. So I decide, “To heck with it -- I'll call Stover.” I call Stover and I say, “Look. I don't want to be a pest, but I've been calling Gordon Brathwaite maybe ten times. He never answers my calls. If you're not interested you should tell me. I will understand it! So tell me.” He says, “We're interested. I'm going to Germany tomorrow.” Fifteen minutes later Gordon Brathwaite calls and says, “I want to come in tomorrow to meet with you.” So Gordon comes in. He gets very

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