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professional ploys, you know, they work on similar projects all the time. So Don Grody, I asked him if he would help arrange a meeting with the New York state arts council during the spring or summer, after I had had a meeting with one person from the state arts council, Sophie Consuegra. But she said that I ought to meet with Bob Mayer, the director of the arts council. Otherwise I'll be like in NEA, wandering around from division to division. She said, “Your project is so good that the state arts council ought to know the totality of it.” Sophie suggested to try to get to him, Don Grody arranged a meeting with Mayer and his staff. When the meeting took place, his full staff was there. I later found out that he had complained to Grody about meeting with me. He said, “We don't meet with anybody, and I don't see why we should meet with him.” Later after the meeting was over, he called Don Grody to thank him for arranging the meeting. He said - - I'm looking at my notes -- “We never dreamed that they had this kind of program that they were talking about.” He urged us to submit in different divisions of the state arts council.

At a national union convention in 1978 one of the delegates, Otis Morse, from 1199 in Western Pennsylvania -- where I had made a speech about Bread and Roses. I made a report that this is what we're trying to do. So this guy comes up to me and he tells me that he is involved in the arts, that his wife is -- he's in the Pennsylvania Arts Council. He was attending because his wife's a delegate. He says if he can help in any way, he'd like to. So we contacted Paul Stackhouse and we later received two thousand dollars from the Pennsylvania Arts Council -- small because they don't give beginning grants the first time.

In the fall of 1977 I got to meet with Mark Levin. Mark was working out of the CETA media arts project. I don't know how we got to meet him. He'd heard about Bread and Roses, that we were doing something. When I told him about it he says, “Gee, I'd love to be attached to you. We can videotape your planning process -- black and white. We have a crew to do it. It won't cost you anything. We'll make it in to a video so that when you submit your proposal, you'll submit a videotape of the planning process.” It was very good -- black and white -- and it was really a good job, too.

During the 1978 contract negotiation I had to start writing the proposal, and developing things. Morty, I'd given him approval, he'd been invited to East Berlin -- Morty Bauman. So he was away and we were on strike. Bob Schiffer, who was the governor's representative on health care, also was a buff in the arts. So every time we have a meeting, you know at that period, I'm telling him about Bread and