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Yes. So the question of fund raising, even Joe Cadden and Sam volunteers after my daughter Nancy married Peter Swerdlov. His father's dead now -- Sam Swerdlov was a very big fund raiser. I talked to him about it and he says, “I'll help you.” I figure he's going to help me. Everything he helped me means do gratis things. He introduces me to a woman who said that she will help me, he says, “She's very good.” She says, “It's terrific. We can raise a lot of money, you can raise a million dollars.” She says, “My fee is fifty thousand dollars.” I couldn't believe it, that people were not offering to do it for nothing. You know, I thanked her and that was the end of that.


How was that for the relationship with the in-laws?


Not that bad -- you just didn't talk about it anymore [laughs]. They weren't married yet at the time.

At any rate, Joe Cadden knew a lot of people in foundations. He was volunteering -- free. He would send out a letter, he would make an appointment for me. He made an appointment, I remember, with New York Community Trust through somebody he knew there -- Richard Mittenthal -- and Community Trust came on board. He made an appointment with this person and they came on board. But it meant one on one. It meant going from place to place.

See with George Weissman, my friend at Philip Morris, with him I had a pact. I said, “George, I don't want to ask you for money” -- because I knew I couldn't get it. Philip Morris is not going to support a union. I said, “What I want you to do, is I want a very good letter from you on your stationary which I can then show to the endowments. ‘This is the kind of interest and support we got’”-from the chairman of the board of Philip Morris. “Dear Moe,” you know -- this wonderful thing. The kind of thing that really is needed.

I remember in drafting the proposal, one day I'm out in the country in the Hamptons and I'm playing the record of “The Cradle Will Rock,” about how it was produced. There's a record that tells the story. It tells a story about how when it was over a young man in a flowing red tie -- you know, white shirt -- rushed to the platform and made an impassioned speech. It was Archibald MacLeish. So I sit down and I write a letter to Archibald MacLeish. He's then about ninety years old. Just saying, “I just listened to this and I want you to know that this is what we're doing, and I wondered if you might want to comment.” He sent me a very nice letter and it went in to the packet -- I also wrote to Malcolm Cowley. You know I just went out and I wrote to these people. Alden Whitman said, “Write to Malcolm Cowley.” I wrote to him, told him, and he sent -- these people are very old, but they send

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