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Then with the question of Washington, of opening it, I said, “We want to open this in Washington.” We got the National Museum of American History, the Smithsonian -- Roger Kennedy. Roger Kennedy was the author of a new book that came out on architecture, the history of architecture, that's a fascinating book. Roger Kennedy had been at the Ford Foundation. A story I haven't told you is one day Bob Schrank said, “You've got to get a meeting with Roger Kennedy. He is the guy in charge of the arts at the Ford Foundation. If he goes for you, boy, you'll go all over the place.” I went and I had a meeting with Roger Kennedy. I told him what we were doing -- Images of Labor, and that kind of thing. He said, “That's not enough. You've got to think very very big -- think very very big.” He says, “When you've got something big, let me know.”

I went back and I began to think. I came up with a big idea. Movable murals -- get this. The back of 1199's headquarters, back, faces 42nd Street. Right behind it is an open parking lot -- empty space. It's got a wall, a big wall, there. So I got this idea of how, “Is it possible to project on that wall through film strip, you know, large blow-ups of art on that wall, that keep changing? I then met with a number of people who are in that field. They just said, “It's feasible.” So I contacted Roger Kennedy and I said, “Roger, I have something big!” [laughter] I also called Henry Geldzahler, who was then the commissioner of cultural affairs. I said, “Henry, people say I'll tie up traffic. Will we get an okay?” “You'll get an okay, don't worry.” Anyway, Roger Kennedy liked the idea. He told me to call an engineering firm, a big display outfit. “Tell them we'll give them 1500 bucks each just to plan the thing of it.” He said, “How much do you think it costs?” I'd all ready spoken to him. “250,000 dollars.” [laughter] “Okay, that's good.” Two months later Roger Kennedy moves to become the head of the National Museum of American History. That's the end of that project, but --

But.

So I call Roger-

Still thinking big.

[laughs] “I've got this exhibition. I've got to get it in, I want to get it in.” Because first I tried every place in Washington. There was a guy I knew who was the curator at the Hirschorn Museum Al Lerner -- I forget his name, but he's now retired. But I said, “I want to send you the slides. Tell me what you think.” He called me up and he said, “It's good stuff, it's good stuff,” he said, “But I can't use it. I can't use it. First of all we're booked far in advance. Second I'm retiring, and I