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That's how things were going. There was some dissension, and the Unity and Progress was organizing. But those in the know knew that something was wrong, but it was not very very widespread. Then, the first thing that broke was David White. There's an interesting story on David White and how it broke. Leon Fink, who is writing the history of 1199 -- if he should ever finish it.

It's close now, isn't it?

It's close, yes! But now he has to change the ending. He's been interviewed by Alex Reed for the Sunday piece. He's now the. You know, he's the expert! Okay.

I'm the second expert.

You're the second expert [laughter]. You're a secondary source.

He had interviewed David White, as part of the history, years ago. On, you know, the people who were involved in the union, blacks. He had a whole picture of David White and his background, and the part, and black nationalism, and his family. He was familiar with David White. He was away on a Fulbright in Germany, and when he came back -- he wrote to me from Germany, he wanted to know what was happening. I would send him a brief description of what was happening and send him copies of the publications, etcetera. He said he's coming back in October, and when he comes back he wants to come to the union and update, and meet with me. I said, “Fine, okay.” So he came. He came, and we sat down here, and we updated what was happening, etcetera, etcetera. Okay, he's going to go back, and when is it going to be finished? Well, Brian Greenberg has problems and all that kind of stuff. Okay. Then he goes, and says, “Okay, I'll be in touch with you.” “So long, when are you going?” “I'm leaving today,” etcetera.

Leon, I see, is walking, pacing, outside my office. I go out and I say, “Hey Leon, I thought you had left already? What's happening?” He says, “Moe, can I see you privately?” I said, “Sure.” He said, “Can we close the door?” I said, “Sure, come on in.” He said, “Has anybody spoken to David White?” I said, “No, why?” He says, “I can't say more than just that somebody should talk to David White. It's very important for you.” I said, “Look, I can't talk to David White. My relations aren't good.” I said, “Who?” He said, “Well, maybe Vivian or Eddie Kay,” because he's heard them referred to. I said, “Vivian, he hates her.” He says, “Eddie Kay.” “Alright.” So I call Eddie Kay and I say, “Eddie, I think you ought to try to” --