Session: 123456789101112131415161718192021222324         Page 569570571572573574575576577578579580581582583584585586587588589590591592 of 592

else could have been in the right place at the right time but not have performed the same.

I think that it was an interest in this kind of thing that I got. How did I get it? Well, when I played in a band in the Catskills, I often ended up as the master of ceremonies, replacing the comic, and having to emcee and tell stories. I ended up with trying to get people like Irwin Corey or Josh White, Leadbelly, to come up and perform. I began to see the art of performance for people as --

The art of performance?

The art of performance. Sam Levenson, we got him his first job, and Sam was the best raconteur of stories I've ever heard. I used to keep a list of his punch lines. I had four hundred punch lines. And Sam would be ready to come to the hospitals, to the nursing homes, to 1199, to perform, just to talk.

In these interviews, we've been pretty serious, but in my recollection of times with you, they always involve some laughter. Can you describe the role your sense of humor has played in your career? Was it something that diffused situations, that made points in a different way?

For whatever reason, how it came about, I always prided myself in my sense of humor, and I could take an incident and turn it around to be funny, and people would listen and they would laugh. It wasn't like I was a comedian, but I could see very often the irony in what we were doing.

For example, I'm thinking of Judy Berek in the sit-in at one of the hospitals when we were organizing there, and locking herself in and being there alone, and with my phone number. So we would talk all the time, and I would say, “Judy, you're going to now do the PR. I'm going to give you the phone numbers. You call the people and say you're ready to talk to them.” And I trained Judy in these things.

It's hard for me to say where, but first of all, my brother Henry is very witty. Jack was very witty in some ways, in telling stories.

Your brother Jack.

My brother Jack. Phil was not -- I didn't regard him as funny. He was serious. Henry, Jack. Eric inherits that kind of thing, so it may be in the genes. My father was very funny in a cynical way. He was always -- I don't want to say cracking a joke, but he would say a phrase that indicated that he looked at something that was wise and it