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my being around, and she could have gone much further if someone had shared with her.

How did you negotiate this as a couple? Was she equally committed to your work? Was that the key to this division of labor?

When I left the Army, when we were young, she was committed to doing things that were in the interest of people. She didn't expect that I would be in a situation where I'd never be home. The times in 65 were particularly difficult because I wouldn't come home on Saturday night until three or four in the morning. I would leave every day early. And Sunday I had to sleep, to recover, to go back the next week. That was a tough life.

What has been the upshot of that in your relationship with your daughters? Give a thumbnail sketch of their names and careers and how has that fallen out in terms of --

Well, I have two daughters, Peggy, the younger, who developed a great skill as an administrator, finances, and something that I never dreamed that she would have, and had very important positions, is now the position she has ended. She is looking for something. She lives in this apartment house and she's very, very effective and good in her work, and she has a great sense of humor.

Nancy is another brilliant person. Nancy is an anthropologist. She teaches at State University at Purchase. She's written several books, and she and Anne are very close. On everything she writes, she shows to Anne. Anne has to review it. She's now well known in her field. She's just published From Ellis Island to JFK. It's on immigrants and immigration. She's a sort of maven in immigration and is being invited to places she can't even have the time to go to, to talk about her book and about her knowledge of immigration.

Our granddaughter, Alexis [Swerdloff], is a freshman at Yale.

That's Nancy's daughter.

Nancy's daughter, who has an extremely -- she's a very, very good writer and writes very easily. That's in part due to her father, who is a very, very good writer and is in advertising to a degree, but he works hard at the printed word, and he has time when he has to work with Alexis. But Alexis now is off on her own. She's on the Yale Herald. She seems to be headed to be one of the editors, and she writes. She's funny. Her writing is very -- and it comes very easy for her.