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that it's kind of hectic. In the weekends I'm playing in the band and that kind of thing. But nobody felt oppressed by it. You were just running around. Most people were running around.

Did you have much involvement or perception of what was going on in the labor movement at this time?

Only what we read about. You read a lot of stuff and you heard people debating The colleges had debates all the time. And in the classes, even the history classes, on the history of the Russian revolution, the faculty person was Jesse Clarkson, he's now dead, he was brilliant, but he was a debater. He used to love to take the rightist or centrist position, and his classes would be divided, the right and the left. On the left was Joe Clark, Joe Cohen -- Joe Clark later was the head of the YCL, later became a correspondent for The Daily Worker in Moscow, is today retired way to the right, violent anti-communist. Leo Rifkin also moved to the right. People of that kind who were very bright. Then there were the socialists, and people would come to class carrying these huge stacks of books, you know, and they'd put them on the table and then they'd start, and the debating would start. He would very carefully involve people, posing this thing and getting people to debate. You'd just listened to it and learn a great deal.

It reminds me of the scenes in the movie “Daniel.” Did you see that?

No.

I was wondering if you thought it was an accurate representation. Do you remember in the period of '34 and '35, any particularly big campaigns that you were involved in, in which you played a very active role?

1934, '35, really not. The things that stick out in my mind is Spain.

So it's a couple years later.

Yes. Well, I remember there were demonstrations at the schools for peace, you know, against war, that kind of thing, but nothing that really -- I think I must have gone to demonstrations that when the Nazi ships arrived, where everybody came to try to tear down the banner, you know.

This is the story that that Bill Bailey told.