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And so in front of Cherkasky and Weingarten, I get on the phone with Evans Clark and I tell him that the contract was signed, and he says to me, “Are there names of people who we should mention?”

And I say, “Yes. You should mention obviously Leon Davis and Martin Cherkasky, and it's spelled with one S.” And I hang uip.

And Cherkasky looks at Davis and he says, “What do you pay this guy?”

So Davis says, “He gets sixty dollars a week.”

He says, “Yeah?” He says, “Could he come here?” You know, it was this network. Because as you move, you begin to know more people. You get credibility.

So what you're saying is essentially it was a lesson that was learned.

I didn't know how to do it.

In organizing Montefiore.

In organizing hospital workers.

Right.

It was learned in organizing hospital workers.

I had a sense, when we first started talking, when we were driving to the city and so forth, that it was something that you had sort of cultivated for decades.

Well, 1958, it's a long time since then.

I always thought that this is really, to tie in back chronologically, and we might as well talk about it now as well as any time else, that earlier radical experiences embraced such a broad spectrum of people and that so many of these people went on to some other different things, that you had an opportunity to have relationships with such a broad group of people that made possible -- I'm not saying that was it alone -- but it played a certain role.

I'll tell you the role it played. It didn't teach me how to do PR. That you learn yourself, and in the process of learning, you learn from a lot of people, too. What it taught me was how to work in a broad united front basis, how to see things that way, broadly, to see things