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And stayed. We got some concessions. One concession was the
window, the right to secede. If we don't like it, we can get out. There
were discussions and offers to the UE to come back. As a matter of
fact, sections of the UE went in.
To the IUE.
To the IUE. It was impossible to get the UE in, because I don't
think that Matles and Emspak were ever going to go back. They had
their own reasons, they were political, theoretical, and personal. But
the union was being chopped into bits. It was getting smaller and
smaller and smaller. It kept losing and losing and losing. So it decided
to remain as a small outfit. Everybody else went back. Many of them
went back later, and they went back as shadows. We went back.
“We” being District 65, you're talking about?
65, 1199, you know, the Distributive Trades Council. They all
went back together, went back holding their own and being able to
stand inside that new situation on your own, but having the CIO label
Why was it so important to have the CIO label?
Couldn't organize. Raids. You spent all your time being raided.
So that the red-baiting of the CIO and the society in general was
Of course, it was effective. To say it wasn't is looking at things
on its head. Obviously it was effective. If it wasn't effective, no one
would have gone back. We were running against the tide.
I personally think that Arthur and David knew that it was in
their interest. They're weren't unhappy about an internal conflict, that
it would be helpful to them.
In what way?
Gave them the whole coloration. “Look who's attacking us.”
See, it wasn't easy for them get back in. They had to make certain
concessions. People were saying, “They're still communists.” That kind
And you basically agreed with Osman?
I agreed with Osman. Davis agreed and came back, too, but
Davis never went into this violent anti-communist stuff, although he
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