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We're going to start by clarifying some of the chronology which came up in the last interview. So Moe, do you want to run through those dates?

Yes. I was married in 1941, December. I joined the staff of Local 1250 and 5, the Department Store Union, on February 11, 1947. I continued with 1250 and 5 until it was absorbed into Local 65 on February 6, 1950, and remained with 65 until September 1952. Late in September 1952, September 26, I joined the staff of 1199 and remained there until I retired in November of 1982. I continued from November 1982 to 1983 as the executive secretary of the National Hospital Union and remain until this day as an emeritus of the National Hospital Union, and continue the position I've had since 1978 as the executive director of Bread and Roses.

We left off at a sort of confusing welter of facts.

Where?

We were just getting into the whole question of your experience in 1250. You talked about “Thursdays ‘Til Nine.” We were getting ready to talk about the splits inside of 65. I would like to backtrack a little bit and ask a couple of questions. The thing I was really wondering about was the impact of activities like “Thursdays ‘Til Nine” on the membership. Could you talk in a more general way about the importance of those kinds of cultural activities in building the labor movement and also sort of the general relationship of culture to the labor movement, because obviously that becomes the theme of your entire career.

In the Department Store Union, culture did not play a very important role. As a matter of fact, “Thursdays ‘Til Nine” was the major thing, although it was a very, very big event and required about a year of preparation. Its impact was an entertainment and personal pride kind of thing. Remember that it was performed for four nights. I would say in excess of 6,000 people attended. They had to purchase tickets.

Primarily members?

Primarily members, yes, union members. Now, the entire Department Store Union at that time may have been around eighteen,