Session: 123456789101112131415161718192021222324         Page 145146147148149150151152153154155156157158159160161162163164165166167168169170171172173174175176177 of 592

social issue since the revolt of the gladiators.” Then when he's writing about a strike in Pittsburgh, a long essay on George Meany in the New York Review of Books, he speaks of 1199, “whose strikes have become known around the country as national wars of liberation.” So you have a reputation with other people, with Jimmy Wechsler. Jimmy Wechsler had to be convinced first that we were not communists. He comes out of that period. He put everything on the line with us and opened every door he could to us -- every door.

This was an approach that was conscious, discussed, shared among those of you who were in the top leadership, the idea of making a union that was a model, that would reach out and be different and would show an alternative of what unionism could be? Was it something you and Davis talked about in the car?

Yes, we would talk about it. You never had opposition to taking these positions. I also was always insistent, with considerable success, that the union had to be careful on which stands it took, that it should not go identifying with every single campaign in the world, that we had to look. I began to be conscious of looking at things. Or when we took a position, to take it in a broad basis, so that we were looked on in the Vietnam period as moderators, as trying to heal the breaches between the groups. In all these problems, that we were the people who could be counted on. “Let's go to them and let's involve them. They're good, but they are sensible kind of people because they're responsible.” I insisted, with Davis to a degree was very, very successful, that we should not do this or do that, we should be careful on what we do. Sometimes I was being attacked for it because I'm pulling the union away from being too far out on the left. You know, we were the union identified with King, we had to be close to where he stood on things. We couldn't embarrass them. We were with Mrs. King. I had to protect Mrs. King. A lot of things I did were based upon the fact that they could trust me in the sense that I was interested in our union, but I was interested in them, too. For example, this came when what's-his-name, Tony Scotto, was going to jail, and everybody and his brother was testifying in his support.

Just three or four years ago.

Yes. I would often get calls from Mrs. King on many things. “What do you think on this?” Particularly after Martin was dead. Then after Stanley died, then it was really difficult when Stanley died, I said to myself, “My gosh, I don't know what I'm going to do now.” Jimmy Wechsler and later, these were the people, whenever things came up, I would always call them and discuss with them, “What do you think?