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think does very well in the state of New York: a committed Democrat who is viewed as moderate by the city and the state and therefore is able to win, because my analysis of the city and the state of New York has always been that it's moderate to conservative and they will elect Democrats who are liberal if they are perceived as moderate liberals. I always give them that little story about Carey -- an Irish Catholic with ten kids. Who would ever believe that he's a liberal? And therefore the people who vote for him include those who normally would be voting for a conservative. That's the best kind of candidate. That's the kind of candidate that Moynihan would make.

Did you consider his record then as county executive to be quite exemplary?

I never really analyzed it. I'm sure it was pretty good. And, after all, the major part of that was that he was a Democrat who won in an overwhelmingly Republican county. At that time Nassau County was overwhelmingly Republican. His victory was extraordinary.

Well, is there anything else that you'd like to add at this point say for example to the Robert Wagner mayoralty campaign of '61? We touched on it.

Okay. Maybe then we'll stop. It's getting late.