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would not be supportive of it, and she's a very difficult person to deal with, although I like Carol, and we are very close friends politically and we like one another on a personal basis. But she's very difficult.

So I said, “That's a good idea.”

Carol takes her phone off the hook. You can't really get her until she puts the phone on the hook, which sometimes isn't until the afternoon.

I go to my office -- it was then at 52 Wall Street -- and I keep calling and calling and get a busy signal because the phone is off the hook. But finally -- it is now about 9:15, 9:30, something like that -- and the phone answers. And it's Carol. And so help me, I spoke to her in the following way: She says, “Hello,” and I say, “Carol, this is Ed. I'm coming out for Lindsay this morning, and there's nothing you can do to stop me.” (laughs) Just that way. Because I was sure that she would be opposed to it and try to harangue me and so forth and threaten me maybe -- who knows? She said, “Why didn't you tell me before? I might have done it with you.” I said, “Carol, it's not too late. The conference is at ten.” She said, “I'm not dressed and my hair isn't done.” (laughs) I said, “Carol, I will hold them here until ll. I'll have the conference at ll. Put on something and come down here.”

I must say paranthetically that I believe -- this is hard