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And you're not forgiving them either.

I forgive them but I don't forget them. I think that's the line. In any event, I really felt upset, because I'm much better in a whole host of areas -- working and the commitment in my judgment to effective, pragmatic and good change - than is Charlie Rangel. Maybe that's personal arrogance on my part, but there's no question that I am a much harder worker and probably reflect the overwhelming position of the city and the state to a greater extent than does Charlie Rangel.

I must say, by the way, that there were two spots open, and there wasn't any question that the first spot would go to Otis Pike, who wanted it, who wanted to move from Armed Services -- and nobody would contest that. If you did, you would be foolish, so I did not contest Otis Pike. But there was a second spot that was open, and that was the one I thought I should get.

You also have to know that in the meanwhile two people went to jail from the New York delegation -- Bert Podell and Frank Brasco. They had seniority over me. If they had been there, and obviously if they were not in trouble with the law, they would have undoubtedly insisted on making their selection, which would have been Ways and Means or ultimately the Appropriations Committee, which I took. And they would probably have gotten it, because seniority was more important than it is today, a year later. But they had already been sent to jail, so they were no longer a factor. It's sad because I want to tell you a story