Session: 123456789101112131415161718         Page 580581582583584585586587588589590591592593594595596597598599600601602603604605606607608609610611612613614615616617 of 617

the New Yorkers on the Bank and Currency Committee (it's not true; he never called me -- maybe he called all those he could do business with, and Brasco would be one of them, and Brasco did vote his way). It didn't save Brasco, because ultimately he was indicted and ultimately went to trial. And he asked me whether I would be a character witness.

Now, a character witness has only one function at a trial. A character witness does not get into the charges against the defendant. It is basically the question: “Do you know the defendant? What is his reputation for truth and veracity?” That's really the single question. And then if the court is lenient, they'll permit you to get into: “How long have you known his family?” and things of that kind. But basically it's “What is his reputation?” -- not “What do you think of his reputation?” That is to say: “What do you think of his truth and veracity?” but “What is his reputation in the community?”

So Frank asked me to be a character witness, and of course obviously they want the very best people from their point of view that the jury will respond to. So they decided that the best people would be to have, since the trial is in Manhattan here in the federal district court, the southern district, Ed Koch, Bella Abzug, Charlie Rangel. There you've got a liberal Jew -- that's me, a reformer; you've got a radical like Bella Abzug, a woman -- and you've got a black, Charlie Rangel.

Now, I said, “Sure, I'll be happy to do it.” And I go and I testify, and the defense counsel asks me those questions,