Session: 123456789101112131415161718         Page 12345678910111213141516171819202122232425262728293031 of 617

Absolutely correct.

So, in any event, I just dropped out of politics for maybe six months or a year, and then in '59 I decided I'd go to a public meeting of the VID, and I'm sitting in the audience and some people came over -- I think actually it was actually Gwen Worth, who was then one of the leading personalities in the club. She said, “Why don't you come back to the club and join?” I said, “I'd love to -- I was just hoping someone would ask me. I just thought that maybe because I had broken away from the club and had joined Carmine's club that I would not be welcome here.” She said, “No.”

So I joined the club again and (I'm a pretty good organizer) I quickly became the law chairman in 1960. I was chairman of the speaking operation in '59. We had district leadership races in the county in '57 and '59. Herman Greitzer was the candidate in '57, and in '59 it was Charlie McGuinness. As I say, I was the law chairman. And then he lost, and in 1960 we ran a race for state committee, and that was Jim Lanigan and Sara Schoenkopf. We won that. That was the first fight that we won against Carmine. It was a rather strange fight because it was a mixture of reform forces consolidating, and Eleanor French was a committee candidate selected by Carmine to defeat us, and we beat them, and Charlie Kinsolwing and Eleanor Clark French were reformers. But Carmine used them, and they permitted themselves to be used to crush us and we crushed them.