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Senator.” He said, “I will help you.” It was really a lovely meeting.

At that point Carter Burden comes in, again imperious. He's sort of hovering there like with a fish hook to take you out and bring in the next fish. And the Senator extends the meeting, which was very nice. He said, “Have them wait, Carter,” and Carter goes out of the room again. I never forgot that. I've never told this to Carter, as far as I can remember, and I like Carter. He's an interesting guy, who has not gone as far as he should go with all of his money and his assets. But he's very able; I suppose we're somewhat competitive. I'm sure he thinks of himself as a Congressman or Senator, and I'm sure that I appear in the dreams of a good number of people who would like to have my seat, particularly if they're Assemblymen or Councilmen or whatever, and they see me as blocking their road. I think we have to stop.

I just want to get a couple of quick identifications. Carter Burden is or was in the City Council. Was?

Is, still is. I helped him get elected, worked very hard for him.

And S Sam Stratton at the time you're talking and still is upstate Congressman.

Correct.