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Prison reform. I got into prison reform very early, and I still am into prison reform. I consider it a major issue. And we became famous -- in a very limited way. You have to understand: there were 80 district leaders when I was first elected in 1963 -- 80, 40 men and 40 women. You didn't hear of the other district leaders. You heard of Carol and myself. Now, that wasn't because we were especially good, although I think we were. It was because of the area that we came from. The New York Times loved to do a story on Greenwich Village. Who cared about the upper west side, I guess the Times thought. I'm talking about the upper west side's district leaders. You never heard their names. In fact, it made problems for Carol and myself. The other district leaders resented it bitterly, thinking that they were far better than we. They weren't, but they thought they were. And here we were getting all this attention from the press and they're getting nothing.

Actually did this bother you? In addition to the reasons that you've said, but as a matter of principle, did it bother you that the New York Times just didn't cover other neighborhoods to any great degree?

If I wanted to be above it all, I'd say, “Oh, yes, the New York Times should have covered everything, but bull shit! I