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handing out of the flag or paying for it, and I started to look for private groups that might do that. I got in touch with Rockefeller and we had a meeting. This is in 1973. This was at the Park Avenue office. We're sitting at the table. There are four of us maybe -- Rockefeller, another vice-president, who knows who else, myself. I explain to him that this is the flag; it's so helpful; it gives people a feeling of identification as New Yorkers and so forth. I said, “I've been handing these out at the subways.” He said, “I much prefer your handing these flags out at the subways than that letter.”

You have to understand that this had not been a subject of conversation for three years, but he remembered it. And I enjoyed that so much. I roared.

I think you brought out one interesting facet here about the Rockefellers. Did it come as a surprise to you that David apparently did not know the public position of his brother Nelson who was then governor?

No, I don't have the highest regard for David Rockefeller's intelledtual prowess and perspicacity, and I have head a lot of unflattering comments from other people in the lending institution field who do not think he is first-rate. So it doesn't come as a surprise to me. I'm not taken with him, to tell you the truth.