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town,” and the place loved it. It may have been a little demagogic on my part, but it was a good story; it was a true story. And I was mad.

About a half hour later in walks Biaggi. He doesn't know that I have spoken. He starts this story: “Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah -- there but for the grace of God go I.” Right? And there's silence in the room, because they've heard this, the whole thing. He doesn't understand why he's not getting any reaction to this story. So I enjoyed that. I enjoyed putting him down in that way. I happen to like Mario Hiaggi in a strange way. He's not a smart man, but he's a very morning man, and there is an earthiness about him that there's a certain amount of charm to. I would not want him to be the mayor. (laughs) Even if I couldn't be the mayor, I would not want him to be the mayor.

Anyway this was a stony silence. Was there even a ripple of snickering at all?

Yes, there was. I mean there was no question that they were amused, see, and they were not applauding in the same way that that first audience had applauded, because if you don't know the background, you can make Ed Koch look like a chump, a jerk. And here his laugh lines were not being laughed at, and there was a stony silence plus snickering at appropriate places but not appropriate for him.