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It was all done by Lister.” It's now built way over 125,000 new beds. That's quite a substantial thing, isn't it?

The Administration had taken up a position of being against the Aid to Medical Education Bill, imagine! and against the Hill-Burton construction bill--this means, Mrs. Hobby, Nelson Rockefeller, the Budget.

You mean, in the interests of economy alone?

In the interests of economy or that it wasn't necessary. The Administration actually moderately endorsed the mental health survey resolution. Mrs. Hobby endorsed it but without enthusiasm. So you can see how little pressure or zip came from the Administration or from the Public Health Service itself to do anything.

This didn't really reflect the attitude of President Eisenhower himself, did it?

Yes, it really did. He had no interest in health, and he felt it was something people should take care of themselves and he was always talking about free enterprise. And I can tell you about a visit we had with him on the subject of medical education and he said that he thought that medical education should be helped by contributions by individuals and corporations and that the government shouldn't get into it. We were utterly