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Were you personally instrumental in resolving this difficulty of his?

Yes, I think it's fair to say that I was. It was an extraordinary thing that Congressman Taber of New York, who was the ranking Republican member of the full Appropriations Committee asked to go on Fogarty's subcommittee, because for years the Research Institutes had been getting more money and Taber hated and wanted to prevent any part of any bureau of the government that was getting more funds. And so, it was very extraordinary that he wanted to go on this particular subcommittee and he went on and he was very difficult to deal with for many years. He, fortunately, as of 1962, retired from the Congress, a thing I can't regret.

He was known, was he not, as a kind of watchdog of the Treasury?

Yes.

Fogarty's attitude this year and his unwillingness to hear voluntary agencies even testify for needs for funds that particular year bewildered Taber, as he had no pressure whatever. However, pressures developed later.

How do you explain this attitude of Fogarty's?

Well, I think that it was a feeling of not having