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and the total amount requested by the citizen witnesses was 968 million dollars.

The citizen witnesses.

Yes, you see, normally up until we asked to have hearings for outside witnesses in 1949, only the Department itself testified and the Department only testified to what the Budget had allowed it, and the Budget never held any hearings so they didn't know what the needs were. So, it was done entirely by gosh or by golly, and the Department was told how much they had left, and it was not very much. It was only by the bringing of outside witnesses that we've been able to interest the House and the Senate in higher figures for medical research.

That was quite an improvement, wasn't it, to have the voice from outside?

It was quite an improvement: it got improved from 2 million 400 thousand dollars in '46 to testimony for 968 million in '61, in 15 years.

This is testimony to democracy at work.

Yes.

These figures were testified to by Drs. de Becky, Farber, Ravdin of Philadelphia, Dr. Ian Papper of Columbia University Medical School, Dr. Connie Traeger, Dr. Philip Handler, and