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interesting to get some insight into how it was achieved. You had a role to play in it.

I don't say that I had an important role, but at any rate, I had told you in the section on the Kennedy Center that I knew him and although I knew that he wasn't very understanding about the importance of the Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts, I felt that he had had a great shock in the death of his brother and that he was a young man of a great deal of energy and experience and was very ambitious. I realized that he really did want to run for the Vice-Presidency a year ago last spring in '64. However, I thought that there wasn't a very big chance of Johnson wanting him to run because I thought from what I knew that they were naturally not very sympathetic personalities--both too dominating, and that it was unlikely that Johnson would choose him unless he was forced to in some way, and I didn't see who could force him. So when there was some early discussion as to who could run against Kenneth Keating, I thought over the various possibilities in New York State and I really didn't see anybody who had a well-known name that could readily defeat rather a popular