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they felt it would be such a shame and bring such discredit on what they had done that it just had to be covered up. But DeBakey, who knew all about it, admitted it to me. She attracts trouble and jealousy and controversy. She wants to do something desperately, but she somehow or another can't help but set one person against another. In a strange way she makes a grinding of gears that you can't believe would happen that kind of defeats her own purposes. Isn't that extraordinary?

It is. Has her effort continued in bringing people here?

No, she no longer things them to Boston. Some did up until recently--and they may still be coming--to DeBakey, and I believe that now there are some people who have been sufficiently trained, who have been brought here and trained at several schools so that they can do a large number of the simpler open heart operations in Belgium.

So that much has resulted.

That much good has resulted from it, and Michael DeBakey is still devoted to her and still goes to Belgium at least twice a year. Isn't that fantastic? You know, he's the one that operated on the Duke of windsor, and he was the head of the