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been a county judge and he had seen a lot of trouble in families, troubled for lack of money for medical care.

I remember that he seemed very tentative in the job at the time. He explained to me that he felt very diffident about sitting in this char and at that desk of Roosevelt's, and he had much less poise and authority than he came to have in '48, after he was elected himself. He's changed completely since then; it was a fantastic change in a human being.

In any case, he told Rosenman to go ahead, and the message was sent to the Congress on the 19th of November, 1945.

Were you present for the reading of it in the Congress?

No. In November, just before it was sent to Congress, Rosenman showed me a final draft of the message and said that the President needed some citizen's support for this message, especially as he was coming out for health insurance. He was the first President ever in the history of the country to come out for health insurance; this was considered very, very daring and very dangerous politically.

This was entirely unknown at this point to the medical associations?

Yes.

Rosenman felt that I should organize and pay for some