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Sheely and Ewing. Ewing didn't want to have an advisory committee to have any power, however, wanted it to be purely advisory. Ewing, for instance, had had difficulty with getting the National Health Institutes Advisory Council to make a grant to get Dr. Kempner for his rice-diet experiments in hypertension at Duke, and he was very frustrated by the run-around that he had been given by Dr. Parran, who claimed that he couldn't make a grant to Dr. Kempner unless it was agreed to by the Advisory Council.

Actually, both Parran and the Advisory Council were wrong as far as Kempner went and Kempner was right. The rice diet was, indeed, proved by others to lower blood pressure but it was a very rigorous way to lower blood pressure and, fortunately, as a result of the money we got in the Heart Institute we financed new drugs which lowered it more easily, although not 100 percent effective.

We did, however, get the same provisions about the Advisory Council having the powers that Parran said prevented him from giving the Kempner grant, and it was very fortunate that we did because it's the only thing that gives outsiders any real say over the administration of federal funds.

Javits came along and also introduced a bill similar to the one we got Kieth to introduce and also Wolverton, who was the chairman, a very respectable Republican, of the committee that would hear the bill. After this was accomplished Anna