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particularly, as he was really afraid of doctors and of medicine, and he didn't have any natural hunch for medicine, feel for medicine.

And you really feel that this has been a deterrent with many people all along, this fear of doctors and medicine, and a desire, then, to just brush the whole subject aside.

Aside, yes. Anxiety about illness is so intense and so frustrating, that they just can't face it, and there are so many unanswered questions when you come up to it. A layman doesn't even know where to get started.

I think he felt pleased that he was successful, but he didn't see its therapeutic implications very clearly, because he just didn't have a feel for that area.

Now, I'd like to talk about the fight to establish the National Institute for Arthritis and Metabolic Diseases, and the National Institute for Neurological Diseases and Blindness. We have to go back to January, '49.

May I ask a question at this point? Was that a natural development, I mean, to think in terms of an added institute for these purposes? Or did you have, again, in the background of your mind, a vital personal experience which drove you to do something in this area?