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You would think so. But Topping represented the point of view of the Public Health Service, that it was too much bother to have all these complicated different institutes and areas that they had never thought about before.

Did he feel that the administrative angle would be so topheavy and expensive...

No, would be too troublesome and too much work. Oh, really, he was very disagreeable about it. And Pepper, who was very much a humanitarian, the more they objected, the more he realized that somebody needed to do this and he became more determined. He finally said, “All right, I've heard what you views are. Now, we're going to do it.” And it was done.

The omnibus bill finally included the provisions that all institutes could ask for construction money for research facilities and each institute established either in the past or by this bill was to have laymen and doctors on their councils. Up to this time, the Heart Institute had been the only institute which had laymen on its council. There were various other provisions which gave each institute the same rights as the others, and other minor provisions which were necessary for better administration. So this bill was a great advance for the National Institutes of Health of the U.S. Public Health Service.

During the same session of Congress, with the interest of Murray and Pepper, an