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Yes, and we do this in order to prepare “Does Medical Research Pay Off?” We have this publication basically to show to Congressmen and Senators what has been accomplished with the money they've appropriated.

I found that in order to get additional money, we couldn't do it by just appealing to the Budget and to the President. The only way we could really be effective was through organized groups of citizens who thought there should be more money for research and education of research workers. And continuing in the spring of '50 we organized regular hearings for people representing voluntary groups on behalf of the Cancer, Heart, Mental Health Institutes, to testify before the House and Senate, and we organized them to testify for the others.

This is a kind of grassroots effort.

Yes. This has taken a tremendous amount of time and effort and I've had some staff on it who were paid through various organizations.

But the results are much more certain that way.

Oh, much more. We've had no organized opposition up until now. Now the AMA sees that perhaps the Medicare bill may be threatening them and the way to get rid of the Medicare bill is to attack all government funds in medicine and pretend that they're