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Control grants being for specified research projects?

Demonstratins to show that certain kinds of new treatments would work or certain diagnostic procedures would work, you know, for demonstrations. And they did have center grants which was very good, grants of up to 5 million dollars for cancer centers. Now, these things were very good. But the whole thing was going to be under, except -- oh no, he was willing to have the funds come to, directly to the head of the Cancer Institute.

See, they gave in on that.

What was the background to his ideas as incorporated in the bill?

Well, he was influenced by the head of the deans' association, the deans of medical colleges. The deans of medical colleges are not in the least anxious to do anything. They want money for research by discipline, not by missions or catggories of disease. They do n't care whether anything is solved or not as long as they have money to keep the medical schools going.

That's the traditional point of view.

Yes. So I was only interested in whether something was solved or not. I didn't want to go through all this just in order to please the dean I mean I had no interest in their pleasure unless they were going to reduce the death rate and the disability rate. This is considered ridiculous by deans. They never think of things like that.

So I said well, I couldn't support the bill though there were many good things in it. Then I tried to work with other members of his