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great change in the death rate. This is not seen in other countries in the world in this time. Many countries like Western Europe have lower death rates than we have, in heart and stroke, because it may be that they were using these drugs in the sixties more energetically than we.

And maybe the tempo of life is different too.

Well, maybe. But blood pressure, in industrialized countries, is very common. It's a very common condition, and for instance, the decline in deaths isn't being seen in Great Britain because they aren't doing anything about it in Great Britain. It isn't being seen in France to the same extent. The places where you see low deaths from stroke and heart are the Netherlands, Norway, Sweden. In England and Scotland and Ireland there are very high death rates. Now, the climate is very close to being the same. This has to be food or lack of treatment. Don't you agree?

The diet or the?

The difference in death rates. Many doctors are absolutely bewildered by the fact that the death rate has gone down so much and don't know the reason that they can close the hospitals is that they don't have as many patients. They hate to say -- they say, “Well, yes, the deaths have gone down, but we don't know whether the incidence of the disease has gone down.”