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At Yale, yes. I have seen no summary of any big experience. The trouble is that cancer is such a widespread disease that for any one practitioner to write a paper about any one experience, people will say, “Oh, that's just an anecdotal experience,” and they downgrade it when it isn't done on hundreds of patients successfully.

I suppose that's the result of some earlier reports which weren't substantiated too thoroughly.

Well, they weren't substantiated. Nobody made enough of anything to give it to anybody to do big enough clinical trials.

But people's hopes got up. The press played up these earlier things.

Yes, but they didn't want to get into the subject deeply enough to find out that you really have to have long experience and large numbers of people involved so that you won't futilely try to treat people in ways that don't bring a history of great success. And that is going on. It may be several years to know the final story on the use of immune interferon or even just leukocyte interferon. It took time before you found out that penicillin really prevented...saved you from dying of pneumonia. But nobody knew but what the pneumonia would recur soon. Usually if you treat it successfully with an antibiotic, it doesn't recur right away; and so it takes time to find out whether any new drug is going to