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I haven't seen him for a couple months, but immune has really been made by Genentech, the boys at Genentech. He isn't making it in any quantity. Unless you make it in sizeable enough quantities, you won't get clinical results that people will believe in. However, there is a very interesting study by a man at Memorial called Safai, who's used interferon with Kaposi's sarcoma; and he's found -- it's one of the several virus diseases that's a social disease -- that interferon cleared it up completely. So we're likely to find that there's a virus in that, too, somehow.

Well, now, as I hear about all of these efforts, I continue to wonder why the National Institutes of Health, the cancer division, doesn't make an attempt to coordinate the various efforts.

They do make an attempt. They're going to put all the reports, when they're presented, together eventually. But they do use it now at the National Cancer Institute, and there's a hospital at Frederick, Maryland, and they will tell you that they're going to do this.

Well, it's high time, isn't it?

It's high time, it seems to me.

I wondered whether they lacked the authority, but they hold the purse strings in many cases.