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Yes, but the news executives of the Times rejected strongly the philosophy of the New Journalism. Oh, absolutely! So the theory of the Times, and accepted 100 percent by our own news executives, managing editor, whoever he was, Turner or Daniel or Rosenthal, was exactly the kind of principle that I have been talking about.

My squawk was, and it lasted right through, on many other things besides Vietnam - I mean, heavens, Vietnam was a dramatic case because we happened to agree editorially with the position, but nevertheless, my complaint with the handling of the news in the paper is that they really were not tough enough or strict enough on this.

Now, this is a basic argument that I would have with the managing editor or the executive editor even today, and he, while -

Less so today, or as strongly?

No, I feel that an awful lot - well, there aren't quite so many controversial issues.

The times are different.

That's right. The issues are a little different. But I feel that we have never in these years really adhered nearly as strictly as I think we should have adhered to this principle of separation of editorial and news.