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John B. OakesJohn B. Oakes
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pressures on the editorial page, from the business or Wall Street community, and we got them.

But of course, I don't want to stop this conversation without saying that after all, I know that that job, part of the job is inherently to be able to take pressures, and of course we expected pressures and got them, all the time, from everybody. It's only, as we were talking, on the context of the publisher putting on a little heat in this direction. And I think I did clearly feel in the last few years of my regime, there was pressure to go easier on the, what one might call for want of a better phrase, the business community, the business world.

Q:

How conscious were you of the rises and falls of the Times' fortunes, in terms of revenue?

Oakes:

Well, I was fairly aware of them. There was a period in the early seventies, when I was made very, very conscious of it, by freezes on employment, and extreme efforts at cost control, and down to what I felt were unnecessary squeezing in small areas. I was very conscious of the economic concerns that the publisher had, and his determination, which he expressed to me explicitly, that he was not going to let the Times newspaper, no matter how prosperous the rest of the company was - and remember, by this time, we had expanded a good deal, and the corporation had quite a few outside interests, some of which were very profitable, like Family Circle and the television station in Memphis and so on - he was absolutely determined that the New York Times newspaper should not go into the red, should carry its own weight. And we were damn conscious of the efforts, in the early



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