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when the Times' economic position began to be a little more difficult, and I think the publisher got a little bit more conscious of the economic problems, as exemplified in the conversation that I spoke of with Argyris. That was in the early seventies.

A chronology? Let me just see. On actual chronology, and I'm just looking at some dates here, - the Metropolitan had nothing to do with economics. The Detroit thing was in 1972, the Detroit Chrysler episode, '72, yes.

In the event, you went out.

Yes, I did, because he really insisted on it, really insisted on it. I did go out, yes. Didn't change my views at all. But I simply didn't like the idea of being, in effect, forced to do that. Did Don Cook, did he -?

Did Rosenthal go too?

You know, I can't remember. I think he did. I think he did.

Was he taking somewhat the same point of view?

I really don't recall that he did. And I'm not even certain - I honestly don't distinctly remember whether Rosenthal was along or not. I think one of the news executives was. But I'm not absolutely sure about that.