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were moved elsewhere in the paper, elsewhere in Section Four in the Sunday paper, I think.

So you and Salisbury combined were able to do what you were unable to do alone?

Yes. I don't remember Salisbury ever taking any strong position with me on the other issues, no. He may have. I just simply don't remember it. I have no specific recollection. But on the Republic of China one, I sure do remember that, because he brought it up and he was very upset about it, and I used it as another chance to bring up the objection to this type of ad on Op-Ed, which I had been turned down on previously, when it applied to Mobil.

Was this an in-person confrontation with Punch, or what?

You mean, when we went to advertising? No, we had a conference with Veit, with Ivan Veit, in advertising, or business manager or whatever.

He was a vice president?

Oh, yes, very important on the business side of the paper, and also as an advisor to the publisher.

So he took it from there, did he? It wasn't a direct confrontation with -?