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me my own views on this subject, this certainly represented my kind of view on this whole question of the Fifth Amendment and loyalty oaths. And I wrote a lot of -- not a lot, but I wrote editorials basically taking the same position, because I had a strong belief in the constitutionality of -- really the sacredness of the Constitution.

Well, as I told you, I've just been interviewing Bella Abzug, and, you know, she was active during this period, defending several people. She was arguing for people for the First Amendment, rather than the Fifth Amendment.

Freedom of the press.

Exactly.

Well, I was always very strongly in favor of the First Amendment too. But I will say to you that when the First Amendment came, in my view, into conflict with the Sixth Amendment, which is the right to a fair trial amendment -- the Sixth Amendment -- I had real clashes with Rosenthal, for example, on that point -- and maybe we have discussed this. I'm not sure.

No, no.

But this was somewhat later. Now we're talking about the '60s, I guess, or even early '70s, when the question of reporting on criminal cases, on the trials, in what I felt was interfering with people who were the victims of unfair reporting -- and there was a big issue on several cases, I can't remember exactly when, but it would have been the late '60s or early '70s