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evolutionary change. One of the questions I have is what were, in your mind, the most reliable sources for what was really happening in Vietnam?

Well, I alluded to that a minute ago, and -- one of, if not -- the most reliable source that I had was the accounts of the New York Times' correspondents as published in the Times. While I felt that their accounts -- and I speak specifically, I guess, of [David] Halberstam and who was it? Homer Bigart.

Bigart over there, sure.

And I think Malcolm Brown?

He was reporting for the AP [Associated Press] at the time, but they were all working very closely.

I would have read his stuff, too. Anyway, I was very strongly influenced in my views that the South Vietnamese government was really not worth our U.S. support, certainly in an increasing military way. Generally that the United States looked to me as though it was getting more and more deeply involved in a war that -- one of the great things about [General Douglas] MacArthur -- I always remember MacArthur had said that the U.S. should never get involved in a land war in Southeast Asia. And for General MacArthur to say that, I thought that was pretty good advice, coming from whom it came from. I also felt, with my strong feeling about the division between editorial and news in the New York Times -- I did feel that in some cases, Halberstam particularly -- I remember that particularly, but others, too -- exceeded what I considered the proper bounds of