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Kennedy's promise was disingenuous. Yes, I think I have to. I was trying to give a rationale for why it was possible -- and it certainly is possible -- that it was not disingenuous because there's no question that Kennedy was a bright guy. But honestly, I think in my heart that probably it was disingenuous. And maybe because he was so intelligent, he saw that at that stage it would be impossible to make that big withdrawal. That would have been a sizable withdrawal. He might have done a token withdrawal or something like that. So I guess the answer is I really think that the promise stated in those terms was disingenuous, yes.

Okay. We can turn over the tape here.

[END TAPE ONE, SIDE ONE; BEGIN TAPE ONE, SIDE TWO.]

Okay. I guess we're moving naturally into the Johnson period. I just want to allow you to describe, in your own framework, what your early impressions of Johnson were on the subject of Vietnam. I know that in another session you mentioned that he -- and I know this from doing other interviews with people like Frank Stanton and other people, who was at CBS at the time -- that Johnson peppered the press with phone calls and memos and, you know, had a lot of personal contact with people -- But what were your earliest conversations with Johnson like, about Vietnam? Or did you have any with him?

Johnson as president?

Johnson as president. Well, you could go back. But regarding Vietnam.