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mean, what pressures do you think he was under from the Pentagon and from McNamara to continue the presence and to build up the presence?

To continue?

Yes, and to build up the presence.

See, what I was saying before [pause] -- Well, of course, the person that -- But it's so hard to attribute now. There certainly were Pentagon hawks who -- there were certainly people in the Pentagon -- Gee, that thing [the microphone] comes off.

Sorry. Your shirt is so nice and slippery.

I'm sorry. And you think -- I mean, you're suggesting that McNamara --?

No, not necessarily. I'm just trying to --

Well, certainly, he was getting military advice from the Pentagon, sure, and certainly from the Air Force people that the only way to clean up the Vietcong was by massive and increased -- by escalation. The only way we could win this war or bring an end to it was by sort of wiping out -- I don't think anybody, and I'm not sure your question implied -- I certainly can't, don't and can't believe that anybody in the Pentagon or anywhere else in the United States was advocating -- You weren't implying, were you, that anybody was advocating that, if necessary, we'd have to go to a nuclear war?