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and certainly the suggestions he made improved the editorial, basically, a good deal. And, of course, it went in that way, with his proposed changes. It is, literally, the only time that I can remember that anything like that happened on the subject of Vietnam. There were -- and I think I probably have discussed this in other contexts -- a very few other cases in which Punch did intervene on editorials. Very few, on really policy matters. This wasn't even a policy question. And it was the only time that I remember other than the carpet bombing editorial that Punch intervened on the war. I don't know what particularly inspired Punch to do it on this editorial because it wasn't really a policy matter at all. But anyway, he latched onto certain improvements that, no question, were basically an addition to the editorial and made it a lot stronger. That was one in May of '64 entitled “New Phase in Vietnam.” It was most unusual. Very likely Punch showed the galley to someone on or off the Times who happened to be in his office at the time, and who gave him some good advice on strengthening the editorial.

[TAPE INTERRUPTION]

In reading through the generic editorials -- because I don't know who wrote what -- through the period of 1965 and '66, I came across one called “Two Secretaries.” Is that the title? I think you have it.

“Two Secretaries on Vietnam.”

“Two Secretaries on Vietnam.”

August 24th.