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That's the end of my reading from my memo under the date of March 25th, 1976. But then I spoke to Gruson the next day, as the publisher had advised me to, and I expressed to Gruson very strongly -- because the publisher told me that I should talk to him about the details -- my view that my early removal to make room for Frankel was entirely unnecessary. I also said I couldn't understand why it was impossible for Frankel, even if it was necessary for his appointment to be announced along with that of Rosenthal's -- they did want to do that, and I could understand that. I could understand why it was necessary for Frankel's appointment as my successor to be announced in conjunction with the appointment of Rosenthal as the new managing editor of the Times. But I couldn't understand why the effective date had to be advanced to January 1st instead of having the effective date in April of '78, because there was plenty that Frankel could be doing during that intervening period, plenty. He was a superb reporter, and he could certainly have gone around the world, interviewing major figures and, incidentally, perhaps learning something about the editorial department and how it works.

I might say that I had spent nearly a year abroad myself -- on a Carnegie Fellowship -- before I took on the job as editor of the editorial page in 1961, and I had had some twelve years' experience writing editorials before that. I asked Gruson if Frankel was forcing this immediate replacement of me, “immediate” being next January 1st. Gruson, who was obviously acting as Punch's hatchet man as far as I was concerned, stated to me, in these precise words: “Max Frankel is the most ruthless man in this organization, and I would hate to be the person who stood between him and a job that he wanted.” [RINGING TELEPHONE]

[TAPE INTERRUPTION]

You had just said that Sydney Gruson had told you that Max Frankel was --