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think that Reagan was a worse influence on American polity and public philosophy, by far worse than Harding. I can't think of anybody else, really, who would come anywhere near that.

Let's begin then, with his environmental --

Well, if you bring up the subject of Reagan and the environment -- by the way, this is not the only reason, by any means, that I feel this way.

No. We'll get to the other stuff later.

Of course, Reagan and the environment are absolutely antithetical terms. Reagan was both ignorant and totally uninterested -- not disinterested but uninterested -- in the whole environmental problem. The fact that he could be led, by whoever it was, to appoint Jim [James Gaius] Watt as Secretary of the Interior -- nothing more, really, has to be said than that. Because Jim Watt was not only, of course, the number one anti- environmentalist in the country, but also was crooked enough to eventually be sent to jail -- which was a fate that he richly deserved. Of course, after he had left office.

So Reagan stood, as far as the environment goes, in my view -- and I may sound like a wild extremist on this, but I honestly think this -- in my view Reagan stood for the total exploitation of public resources by private interests in this whole field of environment -- which, of course, Watt carried out, that kind of policy. But I think this was just one aspect of Reagan's general approach to American government -- exploitation of public resources by private interests.