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And there has been one other, in the Bergen Record exploring New Jersey's failure - - because of political shenanigans -- to enforce industrial anti-pollution laws in the Paterson area. So these have been very good and useful pieces of what was supposed to be investigative, environmental journalism that brings to public attention an issue that people ought to know about and probably don't. And I hope that someday they will have the prestige value of the Pulitzers because I think the way they've gone so far they really deserve it. But it's limited to the environment. The Pulitzers, of course, go all over the map.

So that's been a great thing, and I'm pleased -- always a little bit embarrassed but nevertheless pleased -- that my name is attached to that -- the John B. Oakes Award in Environmental Journalism -- which I think is great. Although, I must say, I was shocked when they proposed this to me.

Great. So maybe we should stop here for today.

[END OF SESSION]

[END OF INTERVIEW]