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memoirs. The last time that I saw him, he was growing very hard of hearing. He's showing his age these days! But aren't we all?

I wonder if working on a tape recorder with him would do the job?

I don't think that he'll ever do it. When he should have done it he wouldn't do it. He was too busy.

He became very, very important. After he was governor, you know, he began wandering around the world as a roving ambassador. Averell is a very good man. He's not the warmest man in the world. When he was running for governor, the idea of his kissing babies was so hilarious. Marie, who was always a very independent lady, was making rules if he was elected President. She said, “I want to say here and now, I'm never going to have any of those dull Supreme Court Judges in my house. They're not going to get in.” But there was not much chance of his ever being the President. He didn't have the charisma. He was essentially a rather cold man--not with girls, but I mean with the public.

Do you think that he was a good executive?

I think that Averell was a good governor.

We went one weekend while he was governor up to Albany. This was the year that Baby Doll came out as a movie. It was