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at, and put together, “Now, how do we feel?” including our children, and helping them to be able to cope with the idiocies and irrationalities of racism. We were one in protecting our children.

Beyond any of the questions that would come up for a black woman psychologist, did she do any writing or speaking about black women at work in any profession of vocation?

I think she did some speaking occasionally on that. Mamie was not--I did most of the speaking and public involvement things. She was a curious sort of solid, private person. There was a quality of shyness. Maybe the word “shy” is not quite appropriate.

Reticence? A retiring demeanor?

Retiring. For example, if we received a joint award, she would want me to speak for both of us. The last award we received together was the Jackie Robinson Foundation Humanitarian Award. We both had to go up and get the award. Bill Cosby, I think, was the master of ceremonies. He turned to her to respond. She said--over the microphone--“Oh, Kenneth does the talking for us.” [laughter] I did talk for us. Most of her contributions were in areas such as the Museum Collaboratives [?], where she was chairman of that board, the Institute for Museum Services. By the way I should say to you that she would not accept invitations to boards unless she felt that she could contribute, and not just nominally. She had an unbreakable rule in this regard.